I know ... I just asked the most loaded question anyone could ask here ... sorry ... ;-)
But I am truly having difficulty understanding why my guitar isn't considered higher in value than the bids I have received...?
First, let me say that I *do* understand the adage that an item is only worth what buyers are willing to pay; that said, I know that all buyers feel my guitar is only worth $660 (the value that I've consistently achieved in 3 tries).
But, my incredulity is due to the following 3 things:
1) When an individual purchases a top of the line model from a top manufacturer, they know (heck .. EVERYONE knows) ... the value does NOT go down ... what am I missing here ...?
2) If I try to cross check my 10 year old model with newer ones, I find that I still own a top of the line quality model.
3) When I cross check my model with newer models, I don't find one like it, either in appearance or construction.
So, here's my "dilemma":
I've got an Ovation Super Shallow Cutaway Acoustic Electric that is 3-tone Sunburst, with Gold Shaller tuners. My original invoice was $1359. I've searched, but did not find 3-tone sun burst in this model. And Ovation seems to be favoring mid-depth bowls; so I'm tempted to believe that Super Shallow is unique. (Mind you, I am NOT stating that my guitar is rare).
Models that do fit into the range that mine fit into, in it's day, are all going for up to $1750 now.
I am *not* expecting to get $1750 ... I'm not even expecting to get $1350 ...
... but ...
Because I know that Ovation is selling an average quality version of this guitar at about $750; I feel that mine should be attractive even if I were ask as much as $850.
AND ... I know that people are spending upwards of $900 on Ovations that are not Super Shallow, because I always search listings (open & closed) for Ovations.
The only thing I can imagine, is that, because the ones that do command a lot are all funky colors (purple, black, flame designs, etc.), buyers want a guitar that looks "crazy! man!" ...?
Am I expecting too much? or have I slipped into some incredible "twilight zone" where sanity doesn't exist?
Hi, I'm not an Ovation expert, but I do know what you speak of and I don't think you entered "The Twilight Zone". You say that you follow open and closed auctions, have you tried to follow them by the time of year? or maybe you need to learn more information on the Ovations that other people are bidding on. maybe you should ask the seller of other Ovation guitars about the differences between yours and theirs. Hope that helps or gets you thinking more at least.
Very nice guitar !!!! but I feel as fellow guitar player / enthusiasts this guitar demands a certain kind of market. I mean the Ovation name is very respectable but what you have is an instrument that is not quite acoustic not quite electric. Defiantly an upper line Ovation electric/acoustic cut-away bowl back guitar. You don't get the full body sound of even a parlor or auditorium or the crunch of a hum bucker you are in your own league. Suggestion would be to get rid of buy it now price/ set your reserve at 850/ and start a biding war at about 500 to stir the enthusiasm. I'm a Martin person myself......Hope this helps? Good Luck! Unkdaddy
The market for production guitars is very soft right now, even for so called handmade guitars.Possibly because of CNC machining,the accuracy is there without the need for more hands on time.So what once cost many hours of labour to create can be done by a machine now,exactly...every time.Just my 2 cents.
Hi! And thanks so much for all the great advice! :-) I have tried to space out my listings, hoping to capitalize on year end holiday shopping and school year end graduation giving. There always appears to be a frenzy of bidding; but I can't ever seem to crack the mid-600's mark. unkdaddy, I know what you mean about Ovations; you are definitely correct ... which is why, in my first listings I went into great length to rant about the difference between the Elite 1868 versus the Celebrity and Applause Super Shallows. My brother had a Celebrity Super Shallow ... it was just cheap. No way did it compare to a fine Guild or Yamaha. But one day I stumbled onto an Elite 1868 at a store; I sneered, picked it up, and WAS BLOWN AWAY! It DOES compare to a D-sized guitar. I've played side by side with other guitarists playing Yamaha's and Martin's and have kept pace with them. The Elite 1868 *is* truly that good. Anyways, thanks to all for "feeling my pain".
unkdaady is correct, you may have not found the correct buyer yet. Post your guitar with a reserve that you think it is worth and keep trying. All you need is 2 buyers who are looking for what you have, not all buyers are. If you watch the listings you'll see this, sell for what you want unless in a bind, the buyers will come you just have to wait for ovation buyers.
I am an avid ebayer (mostly buyer) and recently started my guitar hobby/obsession. Do not claim to be expert in either area.
You answered your own question in terms of what it is worth. The market rules.
So far as other statements go: 1. Top of the line model will not go down in price - Only if people value that model. If the model is discontinued, it will go higher if extremely coveted or lower if people think newer models are improved. Ovation makes a solid guitar but you do not hear people wax poetically over them like Martin or Taylor. If Ovation is not making super shallow bowls maybe it is because people wanted a deeper sound and it may be why people are getting $900 for less shallow models.
2. Your second and third statements appear to contradict. If you can not find a new one like it, you can not really do a direct comparison. Maybe the people bidding on your guitar compare it against the "average quality" new guitar will not pay more for a used of somewhat better craftsmanship.
As to your second question of why the bids are lower than you expect, Unless it is truly unique and valued by others, you can usually find top of the line items (new with warranty) at a discount somewhere. In most cases you can talk the guitar stores down at least a few hundred dollars. Also, there is the value of dealing with a store front for warranty support and other info. There is a special concern for guitar sales that each guitar sounds a little bit different even when they are supposed to be exactly the same model. Someone buying an expensive guitar is more likely to want to put their hands on it first to see how the specific guitar sounds. Lastly, there is the ebay flake/scam factor which is unfortunately threatening a great concept.
Maybe your real question is, "How can I get higher bids?" I have seen some ability to affect sell price by providing a good set of pictures, excellent description, timing of post, feedback rating, etc. You could offer a return policy that is reasonable and maybe some assurances regarding shipping in terms of expert packing and insurance. For an expensive item on ebay, I am looking for a store front, customer service, return policy, quick response to questions, lots of consistent feedback selling similar items and sometimes even a phone number just to make sure.
Bought and sold all my guitars thus far on Craigslist to avoid dealing with rip offs and shipping hassle. This may be an alternative for you. Smaller market would mean it will take longer to sell.
Higher end Ovations have never had the resale return of more traditional guitars. Lower end 'shallow body' Ovations do pretty well because of their low cost and value.
It helps me to know that the interest in Ovations is probably a "niche" one ...
I'm kinda surprised to hear that Craig's List is more 'scam free' than eBay ..?
Part of my consternation, is that I've spent a lot just to list it ... eBay wants a lot just to add all the good pictures that make it clear, to add the Gallery Feature option, etc. ... and I try to get more exposure by listing in 2 categories ... so that doubles the cost to list ...
My biggest "competitor" in this endeavor, are the stores ... they can afford to under sell by a lot ... plus they offer free shipping ... I, on the other hand have to spend a couple of Lincoln's for a box, and UPS ...??
I know that stores need to compete with eBay ... but, now they've turned eBay into an Amazon ...
I mean, it used to be: "Come to eBay to sell things that you didn't think could sell; because there will be someone looking for something that they can't find otherwise" ... now, it's become: "Come to eBay to get some great gem, for a mere pittance, because the seller probably doesn't know what it's worth" ...
And it's harder to get your item noticed, because there are also people offering "phantom" versions of some items (just like on Amazon) ... you know, they list every item that they think exists, then they try to locate it after they've made the sale.
Anyway, I'm going to keep trying ... but ... to make up for my listing expenses ... I may actually expect more ... :-(
I'm not sure I agree that top-of the lines don't go down in value. It's the collectibility factor that helps them to regain or surpass the original value. To me Ovation doesn't have that collectibility factor. Nice guitar, but nothing in comparison to a Gibson or Fender in playability or collectibility.
I'm not trying to insult you or be any kind of elitist snob, but I can't think of a single great guitarist who plays any Ovation that is not paid to do so. Others have said other valid things, like it's not really a serious guitar, it's a small niche market, the sound just isn't there, etc. Many Ovations play beautifully, and some look very nice, but that's it. The beautiful aged sound of quality hardwoods, that gets better every passing year, will never happen to an Ovation. This is why they will NEVER go up in value, at least I can't think of any Ovation that has, but I could be wrong -- again, the niche market may have produced an Ovation collector who will pay to acquire some missing model in his collection. The marketplace is telling you, over and over apparently, what the market value is, approx. $600. Take it the next time it's offered, learn from the mistake, and go buy a quality guitar from Martin, Gibson, Taylor, Larrivee, Collings, vintage Guild, or any of a dozen others. Good luck to you, and I hope you get more when you next offer it for sale.
Have you tried Harmony central and read user reveiws? Its possible someone didnt rate it so high(Im not saying that) I know a lot of people go there and see what someone paid and their opinion of that type of guitar. I think a guitar is like a painting,a hundred people can look at it and not like it.It just takes one to think its the greatest thing theyve ever seen. I do know Elderly Instruments will tell you what its worth and even put it up on consignment for a small fee. The main thing is patience,itll sell. Good luck,hope you get your sell.
when i get ready to sell something, i look for the exact same instrument and see what they are selling for, checking the completed auctions.
i've sold over 60-70 guitars on ebay, i buy what i like, and i play it until something else comes along, and they i sell it for what i can get.
it truly is a market for what people are willing to pay your. if it's worth more to you then people are willing to pay, then you're not ready to sell it.
another thing, being old enough to remember when ovations first came out, they were looked down upon for a while in the early days because they weren't wood.
then they came into their own, (i owned one about ten years ago.
but, right now, the emphasis seems to be back on good wood guitars, at least in the ones that are selling the best, and the ones getting the press in the guitar magazines.
if you look at the acoustic guitar mags, the big thing now is small builders of really top quality wooden guitars.
also, i know a lot of people who bought ovations because of the sound when they are plugged in.
there's been a lot of progress in pickups for regular wooden guitars.
these might not be what you are dealing with, but you do really have to consider them in thinking about what you can get for your guitar.
think of what you've gotten out of the guitar.
what i do is sell them when i stop playing them, at whatever price, i figure if someone is going to play a guitar that i have stopped playing, then it's better to let it go.
one thing i've found in my 'career' here at ebay that might help is the time of your auctions.
there are definite good and not so good times to sell.
i stay away from the fancy listings, and double categories for one thing.
i noticed that when i want something, i go to search and say, show me your 'martin d-28'.
i don't look by category, or sub category, i put what i am looking for in the search box.
if i'm looking for a yamaha, i will make sure i'm searching the 'musical instrument' category, just so i don't have to sort out the bikes!
so, i don't use the extras that ebay charges for. i use enough pictures to get the image across.
if you have 15 pix, put the best three up on there. you can post in your listing that you have other pictures if someone is interested, or you let them ask if you have other pictures, i've had that happen.
another thing is that i've really noticed, or at least i think i've noticed, that things i've sold sell better in the evening. i usually like to start auctions around 8:00 est on a monday evening.
most people are running around on the weekends, monday is the first day back, and there's less excuses to be out, so they are home, online.
also, in the evening i think more people are online surfing.
some people may not believe it, but i've sold enough to notice a pattern.
(i can remember when auctions ending around 8:00 on thursdays seemed to not do so well, when so many people were watching 'friends' on nbc.)
Hi! And Thanks, again, for all the great info ... and the genuine concern! :-)
Harmony Central has had stellar reviews of this model (I've even quoted those reviews, and included links in my listings) ... I've even had "questions" that were actually kudo's from other guitarists who corroborated my assessment of this model.
Also, I *am* in the habit of checking (and WATCHING) similar listings, both active, and completed, to get an accurate barometer of what buyers are willing to spend. What I see, is that they're willing to spend almost list price for the similar model that has a ridiculous paint job ... either black, purple, or hot rod flames painted on, etc. ...???
Regarding wood guitars ... (check StewMac on this one if you don't believe me) ... the sound from the guitar comes from the top .... you don't even need sides or a back ... that's a fact jack ...
The top on this model is wood.
Also (a little insider info), painted tops are blems; natural and sun burst are good wood (this is not true for "colored" sun bursts, like cherry burst, etc.; those are also "blems").
Finally, yeah, I know about Thursday night ... but do you know why that's true? Ever hear the expression: "the eagle flies on Friday" ..? Friday is traditionally payday, which means that the week's pay gets deposited in your account on Thursday. Buyers check Thursday night when they get a new infusion of moolah. Look at the bidding times: Thursday night, Friday afternoon, take the weekend off, re-check on Sunday night, more activity on Monday, then nothing again until the following Thursday. If I make it later than 8PM EST (say, almost 10PM), then I also get the west coasters who log in after work, say between 6PM and 7PM. ;-)
Must use Buy It Now and PayPal.
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